Author Topic: Kanthal Vs Nichrome  (Read 12264 times)

simon

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Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« on: August 01, 2013, 08:10:18 PM »
I have been reading (probably too much) that kanthal has a higher resistivity than nichrome wire per inch in length. As I now have the crown I can check the ohms of the coil under load (a nifty little touch). As most of my coils are around 2.1-2.3 ohms I was wondering
1) how can you lower the resistance without changing wire diameter? is this possible
2) does the number of coils or tightness effect the overall ohm value?
3) Am I just rubbish at building coils?  :lol:
Thanks for any input  :)

TopCookie

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 08:41:29 PM »
The resistance rating of resistance wire is measured in ohms per metre, kinda thing...  So, reducing the length of your build will reduce the resistance correspondingly...  The easiest way to do this is to use one less wrap, which will drop your resistance a little with the same given wire, as the total length of wire used is less...  :)

Also, as another option, if you use a thinner wick with the same wire and the same number or wraps to your coil, this too will reduce the overall length of wire used and produce a lower resistance than the same number of wraps on a fatter wick...

ghoti

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2013, 08:59:11 PM »
again, TC has beaten me to it and answered pretty much as I would have.

For clarity Ill break this down a little for you:

1) Use less of the wire, as TC has said, by using fewer wraps or thinner wick (Less wraps is better as you want to maintain as much wick as possible)

2) Yes, more coils = higher resistance(more ohms) and tighter wraps will give lower ohms (and possibly strangle your wick, and prevent the needed juice reaching your coils)

3) No, not at all, you just need more practice  ;)

I will also add that another way to lower resistance, is to build the same coil with thicker wire. One way to think of it is water pressure, the thinner the pipe, the higher the pressure, the wider the lower, the same applies to electrical current in wire.
Resistance is just that, the resistance of a given material to the flow of electrons - the thicker and shorter the wire (coil) the lower the resistance - the thinner and longer gives higher.

Kanthal is also a higher resistance than nichrome, so for example two coils of the same diameter, one nichrome, the other kanthal, the kanthal will be higher.

I vape like I used to smoke - I prefer to roll my own :)

simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2013, 10:10:34 PM »
Thank you both for clearing my head of a few idiotic ideas roaming free. I will try a less wrap on the next coil I do and see how I get on. Interesting Ghoti you say the tighter the wrap the less resistance, may i ask why? I will try with a good thin needle next time (I have been a bit slap dash of late) to see if things improve. Great advice as always  :)

ghoti

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 10:25:31 PM »
Thank you both for clearing my head of a few idiotic ideas roaming free. I will try a less wrap on the next coil I do and see how I get on. Interesting Ghoti you say the tighter the wrap the less resistance, may i ask why? I will try with a good thin needle next time (I have been a bit slap dash of late) to see if things improve. Great advice as always  :)

The tighter you wrap, the less wire (in length) you use  therefore less resistance.
I vape like I used to smoke - I prefer to roll my own :)

simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 10:55:35 PM »
TINK tink tink...the penny drops!

ghoti

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 11:04:57 PM »
TINK tink tink...the penny drops!

But with lower resistance, you need more juice to reach the coil, so be careful about not over-tightening those coils as lower resistance = hotter faster.


Glad this is making sense to you know! :)
I vape like I used to smoke - I prefer to roll my own :)

simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2013, 08:33:14 AM »
Thanks I know the theory but the practice is so different. I will tinker with wick sizes etc with a couple of wire sizes to see what works best for me. Thanks Ghoti and TC

TopCookie

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2013, 09:44:44 AM »
Tinkering with this stuff is the absolute best way to master it Simon...  You'll soon get the hang of making the best builds just from the experience gained by tinkering around...  I can't say that I consciously do anything especially different now than I used to, but somehow the builds I make now are far better than the ones I started out making, but must have just naturally improved with experience over time - and tend to think that this is actually unavoidable, kinda thing, if that makes sense...  :)

simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2013, 05:41:45 PM »
I understand TC, its is as with all things human....evolution! I will be trying 2-3 different setups this weekend with 3 x different wires so will report back when I have 30 minutes peace and thanks for the encouragement  :)

jimthecarper

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2013, 11:54:02 PM »
I've used kanthal and nichrome and never been able to tell any difference.

Just one comment, if you drop your wraps you are generally making your coil less efficient, especially when using a low number of wraps.

There is always a "perfect" number wraps for any coil, just as there is a perfect resistance, but that will be different for all of us.

However, you need a certain amount of "contact" from the wire to the wick for it to vape properly. Thats why twisted wires and flat ribbon wires very often produce a better vape. They have more surface contact with the wick.

Think of it this way, your wick has to evaporate your juice at a certain rate. If it evaporates the juice too quickly you get a dry hit from the last part of the draw because the wick cant keep up.

IMO a lot of the sub 1ohm guys with 3 wraps of .28/.30 kanthal are just using power to compensate for an inefficient wick.

Not many atties, even gennies are that good with less than 4 wraps. (IMO)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 07:42:43 AM by jimthecarper »

BAzz

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 09:22:48 AM »
Quote
IMO a lot of the sub 1ohm guys with 3 wraps of .28/.30 kanthal are just using power to compensate for an inefficient wick.

Not many atties, even gennies are that good with less than 4 wraps. (IMO)

Absolutely agree there.  I'd much rather have a bunch of wraps - 4 or 5, even 6 than 3. There just isn't enough coil to give a wide enough heating area.

I couldn't get on with the ribbon - too much hassle trying to make it all lie flat :)

Depends on the device, though and the size of the wick. One the D20 with that huge 3.5mm wick, 4 wraps of .25 is fine at 1.5 or so

In the dripper with a sub-2mm wick, I can get up to 6 wraps of .25 and still have a nice 1.3ohm coil.


simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2013, 05:13:13 PM »
So have finally got hold of some .25 nichrome. Although I havnt played enough with all the variations yet I am pleased with the thicker wire and the way it performs. Tinkering time ahead I feel. I have made a coil for my mini with the .25 and the difference is good with a light drop in resistance.

simon

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2013, 07:13:14 PM »
Finally got round to trying the thicker wire in 3/4 and 4/5 wraps on all atties. The difference is amazing. The vapor id good and constantly around the 2 ohm mark every time. The difference between the .20 and the .25 is really noticable. The big difference is in my Mini 2.1....Steam machine it is now  :)

TopCookie

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Re: Kanthal Vs Nichrome
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2013, 11:55:24 PM »
That has become my "go to" choice of Kanthal now, the 30awg (0.25mm)...  it is cracking gear, eh...   :thumbs: